Norflundon
2:49 Wed Aug 30
Re: Snotgrass West Ham nightmare
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Sixty
Not once have I said he's not responsible for results ,what I said is you have to take all the circumstances into account to judge whether it is solely down to him ....
In fact your the one that actually said results weren't down to him....but only when we played well
Bwhahahahahaha....honestly I stopped reading when you said Payet was the best attacking player in Europe.......JESUS FUCKING CHRIST
I think you need to get back to playing championship manager instead of discussin real life players
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threesixty
2:37 Wed Aug 30
Re: Snotgrass West Ham nightmare
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Norflondon
You're having a laugh.
You are saying that someone who is in charge for two seasons and has had numerous transfer windows and pre seasons is not repsonsible for the teams results?
Hahahahahhahahahahahahahahahah
The reason he got lucky with payet was that he managed to sign the probably the best forward/attacking midfielder in Europe! That was proven as he was frances best player at the euro's where they finished second.
My point is that he took over very quickly and didn't have much time to bed his tactics in etc... has the best player West Ham as ever had in his squad and manages to do well, whoopee! Thats luck right there.
another piece of luck was Antonio. He didn't fancy him but Antonio is a one of kind player and proved him wrong. I doubt Bilic coached him and brought the best out of him. In fact the following season he seems to try and ruin him by converting him to a right back!
At the end of the day we all get found out. Bilic is getting found out. Has been found out. Time does that.
My assessment is that he relies on players being exceptional rather than him creating a system / tactics etc.. to win games. So when players don't perform out of their skin he loses games. Pulls for example (not that I want him here) doesn't rely on players being exceptional. He gives them instructions and drills them to do respective basic tasks and he wins lots of games.
Ultimately it's the managers choice how to go about things. But you can't take glory for your first season and then blame extenuating circumstances outside of your control in season 3. That's just not on. It's your team, your players, your decisions. Own your shit.
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Norflundon
2:19 Wed Aug 30
Re: Snotgrass West Ham nightmare
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Sixty
That's is literally one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read...and on here that is saying something!!!
So apparently when all your best players are injured it should make no difference to our performances...
And when players played well and he was lucky and it had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the manager and the way he set the team up but when things go badly it's ALL down to the manager....you do realise how stupid that sounds...surely you can be that stupid
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J.Riddle
2:13 Wed Aug 30
Re: Snotgrass West Ham nightmare
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threesixty 1:43 Wed Aug 30
spot on
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Megatron
2:08 Wed Aug 30
Re: Snotgrass West Ham nightmare
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Top player, treated disgracefully. We'll regret letting him go.
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Lertie Button
1:46 Wed Aug 30
Re: Snotgrass West Ham nightmare
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He's merely confirming what many of us have suspected for a long time, players are recruited with no thought as to how they fit into the team.
Far too many have been signed and failed for it be the individual players fault.
Something seriously wrong about this football club
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chelmsfordhammer
1:46 Wed Aug 30
Re: Snotgrass West Ham nightmare
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threesixty, the best post on here for a very long while.
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threesixty
1:43 Wed Aug 30
Re: Snotgrass West Ham nightmare
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Norflondon
You can bring extinuating circumstances to any job. There are always "reasons". But ultimately that all becomes bollocks. If you are the boss you are responsible. It is simple.
Injuries are not unexpected. Moody french man you got on the cheap acting moody again is not unexpected. Having 3 transfer windows to sign a decent right back is not an unexpected issue. A player with known temprement issues elbowing someone in the head is not unexpected.
The point of management is to have a plan a, b, c and d .. To cover every eventuality. Thats what you get paid to do. If your a boss at a firm and you have a deadline and someone calls in sick do you just not deliver?
We keep absolving people from blame. It's become a horrendous British thing to do nowadays thats crept into society. Bilic should man the fuck up and own his shit.
At the end of the day there are people who can and are doing a better job than he is with lesser squads. He doesnt have an excuse.
As for the the first season. Well it's obvious he got lucky with Payet and Lanzini. He also had the benefit of a squad that had some idea of what to do at the back down to Sam. The minute that wore off towards the end of the season we started to see the Bilic that Besiktas knows.,, that Lokomotiv Moscow knows.
I'm not sure he can do long term club management, seems good at internationals but thats it.
As a contrast, look at Klopp. You wouldn't even know Coutinho isn't there because he has prepared his squad so that it doesn't matter. Same with how Southampton was set up when they kept selling players yet kept performing. If you are basing your long term club performances on the availability of any one player you are fucking yourself over.
System/style first, players next. Not the other way around. There's a reason why Klopp marginalized Sturridge and will get rid of Origi, he has a system and he needs players to fit that not the other way around.
Can anyone tell me what is the West Ham system? what is our style? what player suits west ham under Bilic?
no one can answer that. because evidently, even the boss doesnt know that one either.
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camel-with-3-humps
1:39 Wed Aug 30
Re: Snotgrass West Ham nightmare
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Russ of BML
Great questions. It's appalling that this was not addressed before spending the money.
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Russ of the BML
1:37 Wed Aug 30
Re: Snotgrass West Ham nightmare
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I don't blame Snodgrass for saying these things. He obviously feels strongly about it and has been asked about his time at West Ham so just come out and said it.
I take what players say with a pinch of salt as there's two sides to every story. But I do think his comments are worrying and possibly show a lack of real relationship between Bilic and the players.
It raises lots of questions
Why we even got Snodgrass in the first place?
What was he advised his role would be before we got him?
What input did Bilic have into him coming in?
Was he advised he would be a squad player?
If he played Antonio's position was this brought up before we got him?
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Dr Moose
1:32 Wed Aug 30
Re: Snotgrass West Ham nightmare
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franksfat&slow&wank 1:19 Wed Aug 30
Bilic will be long gone before his loan is up so not surprised he's had a dig at him.
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Nagel
1:26 Wed Aug 30
Re: Snotgrass West Ham nightmare
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He's probably prepared to ruin his relationship with Bilic out of pride. This is a bloke who 6 months after a big money move to a bigger club than he's ever been at before gets shipped out to a lower league club. Does he let people think he just wasn't up to it or (rightly or wrongly) shift the blame on to the manager?
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franksfat&slow&wank
1:19 Wed Aug 30
Re: Snotgrass West Ham nightmare
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Snodgrass has been a naughty boy really but blimey surprised he's prepared to totally ruin his relationship with Bilic, he certainly don't want to return under his management
The fact is he was shit irrespective of exactly where he was playing but some of what he's said isn't very reassuring
r we just jinxed and it doesn't matter who we appoint, maybe we should try an Eddie Howe or is this just a sideward step
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Thames Ironworks
1:06 Wed Aug 30
Re: Snotgrass West Ham nightmare
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Trevor B 10:48 Wed Aug 30
Re: Snotgrass West Ham nightmare
There is a lot to be said for having a good working atmosphere. Clearly expectation was get in Snod to replace Payet, we all know that was an impulse move.
I think Bilic had a player in Payet who was versatile and able to fill in where we had issues in positions. Personally I think that is why Payet left, he was carrying a lot of the team.
Snod is good in a particular role and maybe he struggles to play under a foreign manager, but whatever the reason he went from good to bad quickly. He is not the first and that is what worries me.
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Jim79
1:05 Wed Aug 30
Re: Snotgrass West Ham nightmare
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Talksport are focusing a lot on Snodgrass's comments. Good old West Ham being seen as a laughing stock again.
Despite what may have gone on behind the scenes this prick should have kept it out the media.
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Alex V
1:02 Wed Aug 30
Re: Snotgrass West Ham nightmare
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Agree with most of the comments. He wasn't much good on the right either - the truth is probably that age has caught up with him and he's in self-denial about it like most are.
Agree particularly with Iron2010 about Bilic's street football approach. Basically amounts to sticking some attackers out there and hoping they can work it out - having no plan is the plan. As it happened Payet and Lanzini did work it out for a while. That's why I was scratching my head this pre-season wondering how Hernandez, Ayew, Arnautovic etc were ever going to work together - no doubt they've been doing the same. And I doubt they are receiving any solutions from the manager.
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Norflundon
12:42 Wed Aug 30
Re: Snotgrass West Ham nightmare
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Sixty
Look inn not defending but you can't just say we're shit and it's all down to him, when there are so many things to take into consideration. You say we are over complicating it but I think the opposite, injuries, your best player going on strike, new players trying to swttle in, moving to a new ground....if you think none of that has an impact your off your being very naive. Yes we've been shit for just over a year but we were excellent for a year where we genuinely challenged for a champions league spot for about 90% of the season. This season we've been well beaten at Man Utd who have an excellent side who's bench probably sits more than our entire squad, I thought we did well against Southampton and I'm not sure you can blame bilic for Arnie's moment of madness, Saturday was an awful performance and everyone has been royally cunted and rightly so. Add to thisl half of our first team in Antonio Lanzini Reid kouyate and now Arni land sakho have all missed PRE season and been either missing for games or clearly not 100% fit I'm quite happy to see what he does when he's got a fit squad. If we're still playing like this then yes it's probably time for him to go.
As for the original point snodgrass is a shit play like grant holt that had a small purple patch and is essentially shit. He didn't turn shit overnightbecause of bilic and this is pretty much corfirmed by the fact nobody else in the prem wanted him. Just a thought but our owners tried to buy grant holt as well so if I was to put my money on who want snodgrass I know where I would be putting it on.
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
12:40 Wed Aug 30
Re: Snotgrass West Ham nightmare
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From this thread I have learnt that Bobby Moore should have been a world class centre forward and international class goalkeeper.
Otherwise he would have been a useless, unprofessional cunt.
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Keep dreaming
12:38 Wed Aug 30
Re: Snotgrass West Ham nightmare
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Snotarse
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Steven P
12:30 Wed Aug 30
Re: Snotgrass West Ham nightmare
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Snotgrass?
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Keep dreaming
12:28 Wed Aug 30
Re: Snotgrass West Ham nightmare
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He also went to play plenty of games on the right, only to show what an utter piece of shit he was.
Fuck off!
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